Oppo politics.

"mkbruin, Atlas VP" (mkbruin) 07/22/2016 at 08:17 • Filed to: None

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Opinions after the jump.

I am a republican. Like Thiel, I don’t agree with every plank. However, that doesn’t preclude me rom casting my vote towards the right.

For Oppo’s resident liberals, I think you have a severe misunderstanding of what we (most on the right) truly believe. The vast majority of republicans are social libertarians. Your freedom stops at the tip of my nose. What you do behind your bedroom door has no impact on me. In other words, I don’t give a shit about whether you are LGBT or not, are you a good person worthy of merit. On immigration, if you want to be an American, a true American, you must respect our rule of law. By definition, an illegal immigrant does not. There is no country in the world that cedes it’s sovereignty in the name of open borders, and secure borders is not a byproduct of racism. Republicans fully support immigration, but it cannot be an unconstrained clusterfuck. Regarding race relations, you will find that most republicans frankly don’t give a shit. In more eloquent terms, it is not the color ofone’s skin that defines yoyou but the quality of your character.

So much more I want to expound upon, but I’ve been Kinja’d a dozen times typing just this much...

fhrblig > mkbruin, Atlas VP 07/22/2016 at 08:28

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If it’s true that the vast majority of Republicans don’t care about LGBT issues... then who the hell writes your party platform?

Slant6 > mkbruin, Atlas VP 07/22/2016 at 08:29

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You’re one of the good ones. Really both parties are blown up by exaggerated identities.

If a candidate said what you just said I’d vore for them over Hillary. Unfortunately your buffer image is too relevant.

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > mkbruin, Atlas VP 07/22/2016 at 08:37

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Off topic but I recently wondered how a country with almost 319 million people can be represented by just two parties.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > mkbruin, Atlas VP 07/22/2016 at 08:39

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I don’t think the Republican party have reflected your views since Goldwater.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem 07/22/2016 at 08:40

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It shouldn’t be represented by any. Nobody involved in government should be attached to a party. All it does is cause the other party to take up a contrary position, regardless of whether the party members agree on that position.

I don’t mean it should be Communist. That’s single-party and much worse again. I mean, literally, a no-party system.

yamahog > mkbruin, Atlas VP 07/22/2016 at 08:41

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Meh. I grew up in a conservative family, was a registered Republican myself in the past, I know what the individuals are like and I can see where a lot of people come from with regards to their personal values. However, the national party has gone way too far off the rails for me to support in good conscience for the foreseeable future, and those who don’t care about the social issues (the majority, as you claim) has allowed it to happen. Silence only benefits the opposition.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > yamahog 07/22/2016 at 08:43

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If anything, the increase in homophobic, racist, and sexist rhetoric proves that the Republican party is not as mk’s trying to present it. These things get the base excited. If they didn’t, they would be closer to Libertarians.

spanfucker retire bitch > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 07/22/2016 at 08:43

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The last true Republican President was Dwight D. Eisenhower. They’ve been the party of Nixon and the Southern Strategy ever since.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > spanfucker retire bitch 07/22/2016 at 08:47

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Yup, pretty much.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > mkbruin, Atlas VP 07/22/2016 at 08:50

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Look at you, being logical and reasonable. I think it is funny that it becomes more of a “which sports team do you support?” when it comes to politics. People need to join a “side” rather than just supporting whatever they believe and being able to vote accordingly. I don’t support either side and I will be "throwing away" my vote to whomever I think best supports what I stand for. Its certainly better than not voting at all.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > mkbruin, Atlas VP 07/22/2016 at 08:51

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The vast majority of republicans are social libertarians.

Which is why I hope more people will start to head Cruz’s words and actually vote their conscience. The Republican party has been take over by the more extreme views that fall under its umbrella, leaving many more Progressive Reps without proper representation and feeling like they don’t have a home in politics.

They’re afraid to support a 3rd party candidate, because of this flawed mentality that everyone keeps spouting about a vote from a 3rd party is a vote for the enemy. Dems say it’s a vote for Trump, Reps say it’s a vote for Hillary. That’s not how voting works. It’s a vote for neither, which is a big statement. It’s a vote for a candidate, not against one. That’s the way we were meant to vote.

Bullying people into voting for a major party, and not for their actual beliefs, by telling them that if they vote their conscience they’re going to be responsible for putting the enemy in office is one thing that bothers me most about how people have come to view the voting process.

The Republican Party is dying. The Libertarian Party is in a great position to begin filling its place. It offers a home that I believe more accurately represents the views of the majority of Americans, both Republicans and Democrats.

Really though, all I want is for Gary Johnson to get the 15% he needs in national polls to make it into the debates. With a logical voice on stage, that has shown he isn’t big on bashing opponents/dirty campaigning, $hillary and Drumpf will be forced to actually defend their policies, instead of just attacking one another. Whether you agree with him or not, I don’t think you can argue that having another voice/opinion on stage would be a great thing.

Also, Ted Cruz’s statement at the RNC was probably the most honorable thing from either major party this entire election cycle thus far. I’m not really a fan of him, but that move deserves a lot of respect.

Party-vi > mkbruin, Atlas VP 07/22/2016 at 08:52

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“Regarding race relations, you will find that most republicans frankly don’t give a shit.”

There is a difference between “most Republicans” and you. Most republicans do give a shit about race, because those fuckers have worked over decades to prevent any sort of social progress, and those fuckers are still working to put voter ID laws in place to suppress minority votes. Also I love that you can state most Republicans are social libertarians but theirs is the only party that puts forth legislation specifically targeting what people do in their bedrooms. The cognitive dissonance in your party is thicker than Chris Christie’s midsection.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Party-vi 07/22/2016 at 08:55

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Chris Christie deserves all the fat jokes.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > fhrblig 07/22/2016 at 08:55

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A select few idiots at the top who are tailoring their message to the far right and what’s presented from the media. Extremist views sell, because it’s far more entertaining to watch. You see it on the left too, although I’d say not quite as severely.

The majority of Americans, on both sides, are somewhere closer to the middle. Which coincidentally happens to be right about where Libertarian values fall.

Party-vi > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 07/22/2016 at 08:57

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Chris Christie has no excuse for being the size of a small township in rural Pennsylvania.

BigBlock440 > Party-vi 07/22/2016 at 08:58

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and those fuckers are still working to put voter ID laws in place to suppress minority votes.

Just stop with this bullshit. Do minorities not show up in pictures? How the fuck is asking for your id suppressing your vote?

yamahog > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 07/22/2016 at 08:58

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I believe in a many party system. Keg parties, pool parties, birthday parties, bachelorette parties...

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Party-vi 07/22/2016 at 08:58

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Chris Christie loves to ramble about personal responsibility when it’s clear that he has none.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Party-vi 07/22/2016 at 08:59

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He closed those lanes on the GW Bridge because he needed that kind of width to cross it.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 07/22/2016 at 09:02

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Gary Johnson would never get my vote because he believes in things like privatized police forces, which to me is how warlords are made.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > mkbruin, Atlas VP 07/22/2016 at 09:05

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At the same time, I think that there are a lot of things that people on the Right don’t- or don’t want to understand about Liberals. I’m going to put forth a bulleted list here.

We don’t want to ban guns. We do, however, think it’s possible to make it more difficult for people who shouldn’t have them, to get guns. That’s what “gun control” is about. It’s not about seizing anything. Besides, if the government thinks you should have your weapons taken away, they’ll come get them.

We don’t want everything for free. We want our taxes to pay for things that make our society more equitable, like education, and a safety net for those people who fall through the cracks.

We also want to eliminate welfare but to do that we must eliminate the need for welfare.

We believe that nobody who works full time should need to depend on government assistance to keep their children fed. When full-time workers are depending on tax money just to make ends meet, that means that the wealthy owners of that business are the ones benefiting from the welfare state.

over 70% of households receiving some form of public aid have at least one person working full time.

We know that there are racist elements to our society, and they’re pervasive. As a white male, I know it’s easier for me to move through American society without unnecessary harassment. That’s wrong and needs to change

Taxes are not theft. They’re the dues you pay to be part of society.

Trickle down economics, or supply-side, or whatever you want to call it, never worked. It’s only inched our society closer to oligarchic feudalism. One need only look at distribution of income in the US before and after Reagan to see how it’s failing everyone but the top 10% Below is a chart showing the distribution of income growth for the past 60 years in the US.

Notice a change in the 1980s?

The intent of environmental regulation is not to stifle business, it’s to keep business from poisoning our air and water for the sake of profit.

GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL. There’s no controversy about it among people that actually understand climate science.

Your religious beliefs should not touch our children’s education

Our tax dollars should not be used to subsidize any religious anything. If pastors in the pulpit can stump for a political candidate, they should have to pay taxes like the rest of us.

Black Lives Matter isn’t about starting a race war. It’s not saying black lives matter more. It’s saying that black people shouldn’t be put to death for petty crimes that would net a white person community service

At the same time, we need to stop depending on fines and court costs to cover budget shortfalls because property owners believe taxes are theft

Your statement on illegal immigrants is ignorant of reality. They can’t “Steal Jobs.” People who own businesses willfully hire them because they know they can pay them less, keep them off the books, and exploit them due to their undocumented status. Instead of attacking those at the bottom, why not go after business owners who hire them instead of Americans? Why not go after Coyotes who are exploiting poor people who are only hoping for a new life?

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > yamahog 07/22/2016 at 09:06

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Party on. But keep them out of politics.

Seriously though, taking just your first sentence, that comes to largely the same thing. It’s hard to just take an opposing view when there are 10-20 views to oppose. I don’t consider anything under 8-10 parties to be many-party. Nor do I consider our own Canuckistan system to be many-party, even though technically we have somewhere around 30-50. There are only 5 that have any chance at all at getting seats, one only gets seats in one province, and another only gets one seat, period, in most elections. I consider us 3-party and badly in need of moving either up or down.

Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. > BigBlock440 07/22/2016 at 09:07

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Its mostly stuff like this.

Milky > BigBlock440 07/22/2016 at 09:08

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If you have a spare 14 minutes.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 07/22/2016 at 09:10

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I don’t agree with everything he says either, but you’ll never have a perfect candidate. You have to also look at the reality of what policies they have that are actually capable of getting passed. I believe Johnson would effectively act as a bridge between the exponentially increasing gap that divides the Left and Right. I don’t think we’d see any of his more extreme views coming out, but rather the middle ground and logical policies. Basically moving the Right away from their Christian based stances on social issues, and the Left away from the very poor economic stances they’ve taken lately, in particular those attempting to shut down the sharing economy, attacking services like Uber and AirBnB.

Tekamul > mkbruin, Atlas VP 07/22/2016 at 09:14

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We don’t agree politically, but based on what you said above, I don’t think either of us have a proper representative at the presidential level this year.

Party-vi > BigBlock440 07/22/2016 at 09:15

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It’s not bullshit. It’s been proven again and again in court. Voter ID laws disenfranchise poor and minority voters by preventing them from casting ballots. Not every 89 year old has a driver’s license, or knows where their birth certificate is to apply for a state issued ID. Poor people can’t afford the fees or time associated with picking up a state issued ID even though they are registered to vote. Voter ID laws have been shown to be unconstitutional and they clearly impact minority and poor voters. It should also say something that only the Republican party has taken measures to enact voter ID legislation, under the guise of “voter fraud” concern. There have been 31 incidents of voter fraud for over 1,000,000,000 ballots cast. That’s a percentage of 0.0000031%, and yet the Republican party deems it necessary to waste taxpayer dollars on something that has less of a chance of happening than getting struck by lightening.

In the United States of America, you should be able to cast your vote without someone asking for your papers.

crowmolly > mkbruin, Atlas VP 07/22/2016 at 09:16

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nvm

Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge > mkbruin, Atlas VP 07/22/2016 at 09:18

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Thanks for this. Basically my views on the whole thing to a T.

The unfortunate truth in politics is that the two major parties have become the severe extremes of what they represent, and have figured out how to line their pockets while doing it.

I’ll openly admit to backing Trump, but I’ll also be the first to say that he’s the worst politician I’ve ever seen. I think we can all agree that he’s the first political figure in a longgg time to blatantly throw away the rule book and do whatever the hell he wants. And like it or not, it’s working for him.

Cheers!

Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge > fhrblig 07/22/2016 at 09:21

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Since when has any political representation accurately reflected the views of the people?

Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever > Party-vi 07/22/2016 at 09:26

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!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Or, the Republican party deems it a more easy-to-swallow explanation for their actions than “poor brown people don’t usually vote for us, let’s rescind their rights to vote.”

deprecated account > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 07/22/2016 at 09:38

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Even less would get done if it weren’t.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > deprecated account 07/22/2016 at 09:39

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If what weren’t what

deprecated account > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 07/22/2016 at 09:40

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If the government did not have a partisan system

JR1 > mkbruin, Atlas VP 07/22/2016 at 09:43

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Just summed up my political views in a nutshell. Well done sir

yamahog > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 07/22/2016 at 09:45

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To that end, perhaps something more will come from the “never Trump” Republicans and the Sanders Dems/Independents.

DipodomysDeserti > yamahog 07/22/2016 at 09:47

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Vote for the Party party!

yamahog > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 07/22/2016 at 09:49

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So congrats to the average GOP member on letting a “select few idiots” interfere in the personal lives of Americans. Real small government priorities.

BigBlock440 > Party-vi 07/22/2016 at 09:51

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You’re using the statistics wrong, that’s 31 separate instances one guy found, not 31 votes. Many of those instances involved multiple votes and parties, and is also only the ones that were caught. Also, they have not been shown to be unconstitutional, in Pennsylvania’s case it was just never defended. There are 18 states requiring ID, only two have been held up from litigation, with some being on the books from 1977. If you’ve got time to register, time to vote, why can’t you find time to get your picture taken, for free even?

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > deprecated account 07/22/2016 at 09:51

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Disagree. Now, one party just votes against the other no matter what. You might as well say “Whoever is in power has dictatorial powers because more people voted for them”. It gets some good stuff through but also a whole lot of BS, and people who who might have good points to raise get steamrolled by the party agenda.

In a situation where everyone was independent, you wouldn’t have the voting against someone just because they are in power and you want their job. It would let every voice actually be heard instead of just two equally loud and obnoxious party voices. As a result a lot more of the BS *should* get filtered out instead of becoming political footballs.

Idealistically speaking, anyway. You would have to organize it into groups of some sort so it wasn’t total chaos, but they shouldn’t be organized by political views. And above all, the President should not be associated with a party.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > yamahog 07/22/2016 at 09:53

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It’s pretty entertaining to see how many Republicans try to claim to be small government, and yet believe in these government rulings over social issues. People are lost, ill-informed, and don’t actually understand what their political identities are.

It’s the reason I’m not a Republican anymore. It’s also part of why I work in the auto industry instead of politics, despite having the educational and experience background for it.

yamahog > DipodomysDeserti 07/22/2016 at 09:54

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This Milhaven sounds like a good person who understands that what we all need most right now is a drink.

fhrblig > Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge 07/22/2016 at 09:58

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When those same people consistently vote for anti-LGBT measures whenever they are presented with them, they do.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > yamahog 07/22/2016 at 10:01

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Hopefully. Of course I AM on the outside looking in, but anyone who thinks the US election doesn’t matter to them because they don’t live there is delusional. It’s huge. All I can say, as a conservative, is I don’t want Trump. Hillary I’m not fond of either, but whatever her personal values are she’s got a lot better handle on foreign affairs than Trump, which is becoming more relevant every day. And she’s got plenty of guts to stand up to people. Apart from party affiliations she could be the USA’s Margaret Thatcher. Cruz was a straight-up liar. Jeb Bush, I don’t know. He would have probably done “fine” and not a ton more. Sanders is a wild card. He could go either way. He seems to me like he doesn’t like anybody from the established pack and he just picked a party to get a shot at changing stuff.

Here’s to a good November...

deprecated account > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 07/22/2016 at 10:01

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It all sounds good on paper, but in practice it would be horrendously inefficient. And more inefficiency is the last thing the government needs.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > deprecated account 07/22/2016 at 10:03

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Everything sounds good on paper. In reality everything is shit. Lets try a different brand of shit. The old one isn’t doing any good.

DipodomysDeserti > yamahog 07/22/2016 at 10:03

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I saw that sign a few years ago. I’m pretty sure it was an anti-Millhaven sign, but it was near the border of Scottsdale and Tempe, so chances are it convinced quite a few people to vote for Millhaven.

Pixel > mkbruin, Atlas VP 07/22/2016 at 10:11

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To more generally reply to your post.

I don’t give a shit if “most on the right” don’t care about LGBT issues. or if “most on the right” don’t give a shit about race. You keep voting for people who do give a shit and are doing their best to make/keep those groups as second class citizens. You’re intent and feelings don’t matter if your actions result in the exact opposite.

I could say that I am “anti-hitting classic 911s with sledghammers”, but if the cadidates I am voting for are constantly promoting pro-sledging 911 policies, I am as complicit in the mangling of those Porsches as the elected official actually wielding the hammer.

If “most” republicans disagree with things that are major official party platforms, then you all should be voting those candidates out. If “most” republicans voted 3rd party, or democrat in a single election cycle, and made it clear that they were doing it because they disagreed with parts of the party platform, those parts would fucking disappear in a single election cycle. But so long as you vote for candidates that are anti-gay, anti-minority, etc., then you are as complicit in making your party those things as the republicans who do support those policies.

bhtooefr > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 07/22/2016 at 10:11

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To have a true no party system, you would have to remove freedom of association from the Constitution.

Attempting to have a system where parties “don’t exist” without removing that provision (which would have colossal damage to our freedoms, possibly even more than losing freedom of speech) will result in them forming, and then having undue influence... Oh, wait, that’s exactly what we have in this country, a system designed to not acknowledge parties, but make them legal through free association, which resulted in two parties controlling everything.

Better to acknowledge parties and structure things around them, such that anyone can start a party and it can get power if it represents enough people’s wishes (and that threshold being decently low). Then, no one or two parties control everything, and the evils of parties are managed.

Also, single party ideologies don’t necessarily have to be communism, and communism could in theory function with an opposition in place (although it’d be very difficult, and I don’t think pure communism scales at all beyond village/tribal scale).

Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever > BigBlock440 07/22/2016 at 10:16

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Using my metro area of 250,000 as an example:

There’s one place to get a government issued photo ID here: the DMV. The local DMV office is in a somewhat inconvenient area of town, and public transit is less than thorough here (some residential areas aren’t serviced). I can register to vote through mail or internet, and polling stations are distributed so that they’re within walking distance of the constituents they cover. Getting the government issued photo ID requires a trip across town, and “getting your picture taken” isn’t free (there’s a cost associated with the ID from DMV, beyond transit expenses).

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > bhtooefr 07/22/2016 at 10:24

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Para. 1-3:

I’m sure there is a way to add a clause to such a law that specifically targets political parties. Failing that, establishing a dozen or so parties comes close to the same thing, having enough points of view that it becomes impossible to just oppose someone because you want to. I’m OK with that.

Bear in mind that at the municipal level this is exactly how the government functions.

Para. 4

No, they don’t, but they generally gravitate to a totalitarian situation, because once someone is in power there’s nobody to keep them in line. This can fall anywhere along the political spectrum, but in reality it keeps close to either end and most of the time it’s the far left. Which is Communism. And re pure Communism, I don’t think there has ever been such a thing. Russia around 1920 is probably as close as you could get. Compromises must be made regardless of the system you choose.

jovimon7 > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 07/22/2016 at 10:30

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So you’re defending Killery and Cruz is the liar? We’re doomed.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > jovimon7 07/22/2016 at 10:38

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Hillary is a liar as well, yes.

All I’m saying is they all suck but it’s come down to her or Trump. The rest aren’t worth discussing at length, and out of the “Clump” Hillary has currently relevant talents to compensate for her flaws. Trump is a bag of problems and a list of bankrupcies.

Your boy, BJR > Party-vi 07/22/2016 at 11:46

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Don't be jelly that my governor can eat your governor.

BigBlock440 > Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever 07/22/2016 at 12:37

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There’s no cost in many states. Also, you have the whole year to figure out a way to get there. The DMV here is even open on a Saturday.

Your boy, BJR > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 07/22/2016 at 12:38

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That Ted Cruze speech was something else, wasn't it?

Party-vi > Your boy, BJR 07/22/2016 at 12:48

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Extremely jelly.

Party-vi > BigBlock440 07/22/2016 at 12:55

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The point is you should not have to make time in the first place to get an ID to be able to vote. Again, you should not have to present identification at polling stations to exercise your constitutionally protected right to vote. I am amazed that the same party that protects your right to bear arms could give a shit less about your right to vote if you’re black, latino or poor.

yamahog > Party-vi 07/22/2016 at 13:17

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Yea, jelly donut

Burrrrrrn

Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever > Party-vi 07/22/2016 at 13:22

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How else are you going to shoot the black, latino and poor population if you don’t have the right to bear arms? Make America great again!

/sarcasm off (just barely)

Party-vi > yamahog 07/22/2016 at 13:40

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#berrrrrrn

Party-vi > Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever 07/22/2016 at 13:41

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I really really like being allowed to own and shot a firearm. I also like voting without needing ID. How the same party can support one and bury the other is beyond me, although I guess Democrats are just the opposite.

Your boy, BJR > Party-vi 07/22/2016 at 14:21

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By coincidence, I think “extremely jelly” is how he likes his donuts.

Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge > fhrblig 07/22/2016 at 14:27

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I don’t think it’s quite that cut and dry, but I appreciate your position.

For the ‘middle ground’ people like myself, it isn’t a matter of not wanting LGBT people to be able to have the same marital rights, etc. It’s more of the fact that we don’t appreciate having it shoved in our faces on a regular basis. Keep it classy, and if you can’t keep it classy, keep it behind closed doors.

Can’t speak for the die-hard conservatives though...

BigBlock440 > Party-vi 07/22/2016 at 15:23

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You need an ID to bear arms, why not to vote? Taking a few hours once at a time of your choosing to get an ID is not an excessive burden. You don’t need to do it every year or on a specific day, just once at some point before the November you want to vote in. It doesn’t even need to be in the same year.

Party-vi > BigBlock440 07/22/2016 at 15:34

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I don’t need an ID to bear arms. I can own as many firearms as I please without presenting identification.

Also, it is difficult for someone to “take a few hours” if you must work multiple jobs to make ends meet. People that live paycheck to paycheck do not have the luxury of taking some time off, and when they are off it is probably during periods where offices are closed. For myself, I would have to use vacation time to visit a government office to get identification, but if I did not have the benefit of paid vacation that would be time I’m not earning money that I need. Just because you find something easy to do in your life does not mean it is as easy to do for others. It sounds simple to you and I because it is simple for us, but to many people I know they don’t have time or the ability to get things done they need to get done.

BigBlock440 > Party-vi 07/22/2016 at 16:26

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You need an ID to purchase firearms, and many places require a permit (which is also a government issued card with your picture on it) to carry them. And again, since it’s so hard for someone to find time to get their picture taken, how do they find time to stand in line and vote? Also, the DMV here is open Saturdays, surely at some point in they’re lives they’ll have a Saturday off or be between jobs.

Party-vi > BigBlock440 07/22/2016 at 17:05

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The last time I voted it was after normal working hours and there was no line, but at the same time it is made easier for people if they don’t need to worry about bringing a form of ID that the state defines as acceptable. Also again, just because government services are convenient to you does not mean they are convenient to everyone else. I can understand that not everything is going to be convenient to everyone all the time, but enacting laws to make it difficult and require prerequisites for an unalienable right is unconscionable, and the only people to do it are Republican lawmakers in areas with large minority and poor populations. Voter ID laws have prevents hundreds of thousands of people from casting votes when, if they were just one state over, would have been able to exercise their rights. It should be just as easy to own a gun as it is to vote, yet here we are.

Dusty Ventures > Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge 07/22/2016 at 18:00

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Why shouldn’t a gay couple be allowed to show affection in public when heterosexual couples are allowed to do so?

Dusty Ventures > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 07/22/2016 at 18:13

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Unfortunately with First Past The Post a vote for third party often is a vote for the “enemy”

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem 07/22/2016 at 20:18

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they’ve done a good job of rubbing out any other alternatives. and given how debate participates are picked by a 4 dems and 4 reps, dont expect johnson invited to this years debate.

fhrblig > Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge 07/22/2016 at 20:28

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I don’t think it’s quite that cut and dry, but I appreciate your position.

I really don’t know what other conclusion I could draw.

For the ‘middle ground’ people like myself, it isn’t a matter of not wanting LGBT people to be able to have the same marital rights, etc. It’s more of the fact that we don’t appreciate having it shoved in our faces on a regular basis. Keep it classy, and if you can’t keep it classy, keep it behind closed doors.

When I was younger and graduating high school I constantly heard this from people, especially living in Colorado Springs at the time. I actually believed it, and being someone who was shy, and being someone who had also been picked on for lots of other reasons growing up, I had a natural tendency to not want to rock the boat or call attention to myself. I really thought I’d be left alone if I stayed closeted and never talked about being gay and all that. I’m naturally a masculine guy and my interests are mostly the same as straight guys so I can pass just fine. But that made me become withdrawn and miserable, and I ended up spending pretty much a whole decade of my life alone. You know what it got me? I mean, besides the debilitating loneliness? It got me a state (and a country) full of people who didn’t think twice about legislating me and people like me into second class citizenship. After the 2004 election when 11 more states voted to ban same-sex marriage (which the Republican party used to fire up their base during the election), I wanted to die. I was completely alone, and I felt sub-human. Then in 2006 my state (Colorado) voted that they would not recognize any same-sex marriages regardless of where they were legally entered into. I finally realized that when I made myself invisible that it meant that people couldn’t see me, even my loved ones, and that since they couldn’t see me they did not know they were hurting me. I couldn’t take it anymore and I finally came out to my parents after that, and I slowly started taking steps out of my shell. A few years later I met my husband online and we’ve now been together for over 8 years.

I still have fears, though. I look around before I even think of holding his hand in public or even giving him a kiss goodbye before dropping him off at the airport. It doesn’t matter if we “keep it classy”, I feel like we’ll still be looked at as freaks.

He’s prone to kidney stones, and each trip to the ER has been like a full-blown panic attack; will they let me be with him? Will they respect our relationship? We’ve only been married legally a year but I still freak out about hospitals. So far we’ve been treated with respect every time we’ve gone in and I’m hugely grateful for that.

Too often, “shoving it in our faces” is code for “I never want to see or hear or know about gay people or that they exist at all”. I doubt you personally feel that way, but I have personally had that experience multiple times with so-called ‘middle-ground’ Republicans. I’ve had someone ask me about whether I’m single or not and when I tell them the truth they get annoyed about it and clam up, and just stop talking to me. THEY asked me, but I’m “shoving it in their faces”.

My parents, who are very conservative, have been very supportive and they love my husband. I have no doubt in my mind, though, that they voted for every anti-LGBT measure that came up for a vote before they knew I was gay. I haven’t (and probably won’t) asked them about it, because I love them and I don’t want to antagonize them, but part of me wants to ask them “if you don’t support these kind of laws now that you know I’m gay, why was it ok before?”

I’m sure you didn’t really want to read a long wordy response, so I apologize for rambling. I just wish you could know just how painful it is for people to live a lie because some feel uncomfortable around LGBT people.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 07/22/2016 at 20:29

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http://www.christiantoday.com/article/two.th…

yamahog > fhrblig 07/22/2016 at 23:27

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Well said.

Xyl0c41n3 > fhrblig 07/24/2016 at 00:38

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Don’t apologize. It needed to be said. And your words apply to so many other things “moderate republicans” say about (insert minority population here).

“I don’t care if you’re Latino, but this is America and we speak English.”

“I don’t care if you’re black, white, green or purple, but why do (black/Latino/Asian/Indian/etc) always have to be so (X)?”

“I don’t care whether you’re a man or a woman, but why do women, especially feminists, always talk about (X)?”

For all the “not caring” moderate and other Republicans do about people who don’t look like them, they sure as hell seem to LOVE authoring and passing legislation that negatively affects us, erodes our rights, relegates us to second class citizenship, and makes us less than human.

Xyl0c41n3 > Party-vi 07/24/2016 at 00:41

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This is why I like you. Bravo!

Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge > Dusty Ventures 07/25/2016 at 09:28

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To be clear, I’m not saying that anyone shouldn’t be ‘allowed’ to do what they feel is right. Simply expressing my personal opinion that I’d prefer not to see it.

I say, do what you want, but don’t expect everyone else to okay with it.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Dusty Ventures 07/25/2016 at 09:40

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I do understand how this works, and the argument in favor of voting this way. I just don’t agree with it. It’s more a matter of semantics and how you look at the problem, than a matter of fact. I suppose I used to be what some would consider more “realistic” in my approach to voting, following that logic. However, more recently I guess I’ve gotten slightly more idealistic. At least that’s what some would call it. I’d venture to say that I’ve taken the more realistic, albeit harder, approach now. IF we really want to see change take place it has to start with individuals. Particularly in light of the Democratic party being shown to be just as screwed up as the Republicans, citizens need to show that they’re dissatisfied with the way the parties are running this country. I can only do my one part, and for me that part is to vote for a candidate I actually believe in. If more people did that, I have no doubt that we’d live in a better place.

(I know I just used the word “if” a lot, which I hate to do and realize how weak it makes an argument sound. lol)

Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge > Xyl0c41n3 07/25/2016 at 10:10

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Not all ‘moderate and other republicans’ think like that. For instance, I’m absolutely a feminist, but the modern ‘women and women first’ attitude of feminism frustrates me to no end.

Xyl0c41n3 > Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge 07/25/2016 at 10:28

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If ever one of your credos starts with, “I’m a/an (X), but...” then you might want to re-evaluate whether or not you really do support X, because chances are, you really don’t.

It’s kinda like when people say, “I’m not a racist, but...” and then the next thing out of their mouths is something racist.

If you “support” feminism but don’t understand how “women first” whatever that is, is a part of it, then I’ve got news for you: you’re not a feminist. You’re a dude who thinks he can give us permission to keep talking until we start talking too loud, demanding too much, or making you feel too uncomfortable.

We don’t need lukewarm allies, nor do we need allies who would put conditions on our fight for equality or the voices we use in that fight.

Get out of here with that crap.

Dusty Ventures > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 07/25/2016 at 10:33

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I didn’t mean to discourage you from voting third party at all, hell I’ve voted third party more than once myself. I was just saying that the way we elect people itself is fucked. There’s better ways, but unfortunately the current parties will probably fight it from ever becoming a reality.

Xyl0c41n3 > Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge 07/25/2016 at 10:35

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You can be as uncomfortable (read: homophobic) as you want when you see two men or two women holding hands, kissing in public, or otherwise doing what any heterosexual couple can do in public without anyone raising an eyebrow.

But your rights absolutely end when you would try to prevent those couples from doing those things, either by you telling them something directly, or by— as a member of a specific political party — trying (and in many cases, succeeding) to pass legislation that infringes on their civil rights.

Thankfully, every day those unlawful bits of legislation are being overturned in the courts, as they should be.

Nobody cares about your personal opinions in regards to how people live their lives, especially when those opinions would restrict another person’s freedom. The very preamble of our country’s blueprint says no one has that right.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Dusty Ventures 07/25/2016 at 10:37

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Oh, don’t worry. You didn’t discourage me. haha I get the “you’re wasting your vote” or “That’s a vote for Hillary” or “That’s a vote for Trump” all the time. If I were easily discouraged I’d be a pretty downtrodden man. haha I just throw it back at them that I will have a clean conscience when this is all done.

Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge > Xyl0c41n3 07/25/2016 at 10:55

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Ah, yes. I now remember our previous encounter...

Well if my opinions are, as you say, “crap”, I’ll gladly leave you to continue your liberal circlejerk.

Xyl0c41n3 > Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge 07/25/2016 at 11:01

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Funny, I don’t remember you at all.

Have fun with your homophobia and sexism.

*Laughs at the idea of a straight man telling a gay man to keep his sexuality “classy” otherwise it’s not ok as proof of how “progressive” he is*

Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge > Xyl0c41n3 07/25/2016 at 11:31

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Of course not. I’m just another one of the white, male, sexist, homophobic, moderate republican drones. :)

We aren’t all that memorable.

Xyl0c41n3 > Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge 07/25/2016 at 11:40

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Nailed it!

Bless your ever loving heart.

xyzabc > mkbruin, Atlas VP 07/27/2016 at 16:15

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People always wish for change, ...but then vote the same as they did before.